I got pulled over a couple weeks ago...

"Zohaibman72" (zohaibman72) 01/30/2016 at 21:46 • Filed to: Cops, Police, Zohaibman72's Honda

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So about 2-3 weeks ago I was hanging out with all my friends when we decided we might as well stay over at my friends to avoid driving so late at night. We decided to get snacks before midnight and stopped a local grocery store. I was feeling awfully sick so I let one of my friends drive my car, let’s call him S. My 5 friends all decided they where hungry so we decided to go grab some Shawrmas (pita wraps) at the local Arabic place. We grabbed our food and groceries and saw a bunch of cop cars parked in the back of the lot. We started to leave the parking lot and made it two lights before i noticed the cop behind us. I said “Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the cop stopped me because of my exhaust?”

Woop woop it’s the sound of the police. The cop car pulls us over to the side, this isn’t my first time being in a car when it’s being pulled over, but it absolutely scared the crap out of me and I was freaking out. I remember the exact feeling. My heart stopped and I just kept thinking “it’s over, I can never drive again. It’s all over.”. 5 teenagers crammed in a Civic with a loud exhaust seemed very suspicious to begin with, and my friends in the back where worried they didn’t have their seat belts on, so in their panic to check they kept rocking back and forth. The cop exited his cruiser visibly angry, he was not in a good mood. He began opening with why my friends in the back where moving so much. On of my friends, (lets call him H), moved again and the cop noticed it. He yelled out “Move like that again and I will personally throw you out of the vehicle and beat the hell out of you”. Naturally I started internally freaking out more.

The cop came up to the window with my friend in the Driver’s seat and asked us all the usual questions, “what are you doing tonight”etc. He then said “We got a call of some rowdy teenagers with brown bags getting in a car.”. The cop then pointed at the brown bag in the cupholder of my Civic and asked for us to get out of the car so he could search it. The cop then checked in the brown bag, and saw the Shawrma and started laughing pretty hard. Another cop pulled up at that time and they started searching my whole car, in the seats and everything. They then ran our licenses through and let us go. I have been absolutely terrified of every cop since, and nobody is ever touching my car other than my parents.

tl;dr Cop thought we where drinking alcohol out of brown bags and driving, turns out the brown bags where shawrma.

atfsgeoff > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 21:50

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Since when is a brown bag probable cause for a search? I’d be very angry with that officer if he searched my car without a warrant because of a brown paper bag in plain sight.

Zohaibman72 > atfsgeoff 01/30/2016 at 21:53

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It doesn’t really. It seems like alcohol but you are right that they have no right to do it. They didn’t even really ask. But I wasn’t going to make a scene since I didn’t want to escalate it because I wasn’t doing anything illegal.

iSureWilll > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 21:58

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And you didn't get shot or beat up. Quite interesting...

Steve in Manhattan > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 21:59

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Never permit a consent search. You never know what the previous owner or a buddy of yours left in the car.

Zohaibman72 > iSureWilll 01/30/2016 at 22:00

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Even more interesting considering i’m not white and i’m a teenager.

Xyl0c41n3 > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:00

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That’s no reason to not stand up for your rights. You have the right to be protected from unlawful search and seizure. Did the cop ask if he could conduct the search? If you said no, he needs a warrant. Because his “probable cause” was thin.

Zohaibman72 > Xyl0c41n3 01/30/2016 at 22:02

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I understand what he did was wrong, but the position I was in, I was absolutely terrified. I didn’t feel like getting him more angry. Also considering I wasn’t driving my own car, if they found that out that could have gotten worse too.

boxrocket > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:06

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Mmmmm, shawarma...

Xyl0c41n3 > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:07

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That feeling you felt? Intimidation? Fear of arrest? Fear of setting him off? There’s a name for that. It’s called “official oppression” and it's a crime.

atfsgeoff > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:08

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Cops prey on fear. You weren’t doing anything wrong, there is no law which says your licensed friend can’t drive your car with your consent.

Darkshoe (With Straight 6) > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:13

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Didn’t have probable cause. You gave him legal allowance to search your car. I know that you know that you were clean, but I don’t think you should have let him.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:13

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I hate to pile on, but this is exactly why you record your interactions with the police. That search was quite literally unwarranted.

When I was a teen I got pulled over a lot. NJ had switched to a new “Cinderella license” whereby licenses of teens under 18 were not to be used after midnight or before, I think, 5 AM. I had transferred from MI, so i wasn’t hit with this law, i had a full license because of the transfer. So if we went to parties, or late movies. I drove since I could (always sober, I took DD duty seriously.) The high school parking sticker (with current year) was a give away in my town, so they pulled me over all of the time after midnight. Pissed them off to no end that I was legal despite being 17, often with them requesting the guy “check again, because there’s no way.” I was threatened with a search myriad times, but knew my rights and made sure to never consent, so far to say I would require a lawyer before I would allow a search. I knew that since I was leaving from a party, all it would take is one of my buddies having pot in his pocket and we all would be in deep. I hadn’t done anything illegal, I hadn’t acted in a suspicious manner, I had presented paperwork upon request. I was allowed to go.

Your fear is their weapon. Letting them know they are being recorded goes a long way in communicating to them that you won’t be a push over. They may play a little tough over it and give you ticket you may have gotten out of otherwise, but if one of your friends screwed up and has something on them, it’s better that you get the traffic ticket.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Xyl0c41n3 01/30/2016 at 22:52

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the thing is that You can refuse consent to a search without Probable cause by “I refuse a search under my 4th amendment rights”. Cops can sadly use thin probable cause to search your car. And the brown bars constituted as probable cause. But cop decided to be a dick about it. It’s like if a cop can search your car if There is clearly beer bottles laying around seen with a quick glance in the window, the cop can legally demand a search of your car.

CB > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:54

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Legally in Canada, I don’t think they can search passengers during a traffic stop without probable cause. Section 8 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

qbeezy > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 22:56

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You sir had your rights violated.

CB > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 01/30/2016 at 23:05

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We’re Canadian, it falls under section 8 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

pImpOfThePerverse > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 23:08

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i think all this war on x rhetoric makes some cops regard themselves as an occupying army. it ceases to occur to them that most people obey the law because of moral suasion and nobody obeys the law because they’re afraid of violent cops. i mean, some people are afraid of violent cops but as you’ve observed, following the law doesn’t help that any.

jariten1781 > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 23:14

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Counter to everyone else, I think you did fine. Could you have been righteous and had a pissing match with the cops? Sure. Would you have won? Maybe, or maybe you’d have been searched anyhow. You can choose not to assert your rights in the interest of expedience.

In this case you’ve got a witness who believes some kids are drinking, a container of a shape and style used to conceal alcohol, and strange behavior of the rear passengers. That’s absolutely reasonable suspicion and right on the cusp of probable cause. If you make the cop get a warrant in this case he’ll likely succeed and he’ll likely make it as painful as possible by calling in a canine unit and detaining the 5 of you as long as possible. Oh, and don’t forget tearing off your door cards and pulling up your carpet and shit. They love to do that.

There’s a lot of 4th amendment warriors on the internet. They’re just as nonsensical for the everyman as the extreme 2nd ammendment adherents. Are they wrong? Nah. But not everyone has to have their fight.

Xyl0c41n3 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 01/30/2016 at 23:23

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The cop’s probable cause was that “they” got some reports of rowdy teens. If that’s true, then there’s a call log with the dispatcher. You can submit a FOIA request for that information. If there was no call, then that cop was full of shit and his thin probable cause goes right out the window and the resulting search was a violation of their civil rights.

ETA: The cop’s intimidation tactics, combined with a (possibly) unlawful search make a strong case for official oppression. If you think cops don't ever actually get charged with that, you'd be wrong. I just wrote a story this week about two who were.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Xyl0c41n3 01/30/2016 at 23:25

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Enough with the fucking law enforcement power trip. Why can't all police be like the cool cops around here ?

Xyl0c41n3 > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 01/30/2016 at 23:27

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Around where? There are good cops and bad cops in every department. There's no one place that has only cool cops or only dick cops. Just like any other job.

64C10 > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 23:31

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Technically wouldn’t that be unwarranted search/seizure? Or is that covered by the whole probable cause thing?

64C10 > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 23:33

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Sorry, didn’t look at the comments. Gotcha.

Funktheduck > Zohaibman72 01/30/2016 at 23:57

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Police use fear as a way of violating your rights like that.

I got stopped by a road block last summer with friends. Asked lots of questions I didn’t have to answer. Almost asked to search the car. He let us go because we weren’t doing anything wrong and they were looking for drunk drivers.

I followed along, not because I was scared, but because I didn’t want the hassle of explaining how he was violating our rights.

Wasn't the first, won't be the last.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Xyl0c41n3 01/31/2016 at 00:20

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Fair enough. It just seems that of all the interactions I've had with police, pretty much all of them have been positive.

Xyl0c41n3 > V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches 01/31/2016 at 00:22

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Are you white? Do you live in a moderately well off or “quiet” part of town? That has a lot to do with it.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > Xyl0c41n3 01/31/2016 at 00:23

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Yes, yes and for sure.

Svend > Zohaibman72 01/31/2016 at 00:33

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Wow, your police seem to do just what they want out of your fear of being shot or beaten and then covered up.

Zohaibman72 > jariten1781 01/31/2016 at 01:41

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I imagine calling the cop out he would have done something drastic. He was actually really friendly after finding out it was shawrma.

Zohaibman72 > Xyl0c41n3 01/31/2016 at 01:44

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I know it’s an awful feeling but it’s just always been like that. Even good experiences with cops. I’ve been mugged near my school before and had cops helping me find the culprit and everything. I was still afraid of the cops. It’s just how I am. I’ve only had positive experiences prior to this and I feel like, at the end of the day, the cop was trying to stop drunk drivers, which, yes is his job, but also I thing I’d support fully.

NYankee1927 > jariten1781 01/31/2016 at 01:45

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I think he did everything right too. Not to mention if you start hassling them about the search, they have every right to start hassling you about the legality of the exhaust, ect. There is a little give and take when it comes to law enforcement, make their lives easy, they may overlook some details. Give them a hard time, and they will for sure treat you the same way.

Zohaibman72 > NYankee1927 01/31/2016 at 01:49

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Exactly my thought at the time. I didn’t want to get booked for the exhaust or the fact I wasn’t driving my own car. They didn’t ask for insurance, thank god. And for the most part they assumed the driver was the owner. He questioned all of us though.

I used hang around some bad kids and they only made their lives worse when they said things they shouldn’t have. I feel like complying will make everyone’s life easier. I didn’t mind them searching the car either because I know my friends well enough, and the only prior owner is my mom.

Zohaibman72 > Steve in Manhattan 01/31/2016 at 01:50

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I didn’t think of it at the time. I know my friends well and have known them for years, and my mom is the only previous owner.

If they found drugs, I’d have to have an awkward talk with my mom.

His Stigness > atfsgeoff 01/31/2016 at 13:31

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He had probable cause due to a previous call, so no warrant needed. Law enforcement is given some leeway when it comes to searching your car on a traffic stop.

Note to everyone: if you have nothing to hide, then fucking corporate! It does you no good to be a little shit to the officers, even if they’re being assholes. If they’re being an ass get their name and their ID (but really, all you need is their name) and then call the local office and file a complaint. Get your rocks off with a complaint, not refusing to corporate.

His Stigness > Zohaibman72 01/31/2016 at 13:32

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Actually they did have the right as your car, and your friends matched the description of a call earlier, so they had probably cause.

His Stigness > Xyl0c41n3 01/31/2016 at 13:35

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Even though his probable cause was thin, it was still probable cause. The only time “thin” probable cause becomes a problem is in court when you’ve been charged with something.

He didn’t do anything wrong so he did the right thing by letting the officer search his car.

Xyl0c41n3 > His Stigness 01/31/2016 at 14:22

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He didn’t do anything wrong and had no obligation to allow a search of his car, property or person. That applies even if he HAD been doing something wrong. The excuse of “if you’ve got nothing to hide then you’ve got nothing to worry about” is not a valid reason to give up your rights.

Furthermore, the cop told the kids that the police had received a report of rowdy teens. Dispatcher call logs are matters of public record. If those logs are requested and no such call was made, that officer broke the law.

That officer searched the car and intimidated those kids because they were guilty of being outdoors at night while black.

Official oppression is a crime precisely to discourage this kind of behavior from cops.

atfsgeoff > His Stigness 01/31/2016 at 14:27

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“Some rowdy teenagers with brown bags getting in a car” is not a crime either, so even with the previous call, there was no probable cause for the search. Rolling over and letting the police violate your rights is never the right thing to do. DO NOT consent to the search. If they search your car anyway against your will, then nothing is admissible in court later (unless they convince the judge of probable cause existing).

Sadly, all a cop has to do is tell the judge “he smelled pot” in the car, and that all-too-often passes as probable cause these days.

His Stigness > Xyl0c41n3 01/31/2016 at 15:48

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So you’re telling me when you were a 16 year old kid and had been pulled over by an officer in a car with an illegal exhaust, you wouldn’t let him search your car even though you know you had nothing illegal in it? Bullshit! Every “adult” says they wouldn’t let an officer do that, but every time you actually get pulled over you roll over like a bitch because you won’t to start something with someone who has a gun.

Tell me, what do you gain by refusing the officer to let him search your car??? Some sort of satisfaction that you “stuck it to the man?” Yeah. Enjoy sitting on the curb in handcuffs because the officer really did get a call from someone about you and have a sergeant (or commander) come out and tell you the officer is within his rights to search your car. As I said, officers are given a lot of leeway on a traffic stop and they will be found in the right. You may think a call about teenagers with a brown paper bag isn’t enough evidence to search a car, but I can guarantee you a judge will.

And yes, you’re right, call logs are public, and I can bet a shit ton of money someone called about these kids, people do it ALL THE TIME. The officer had enough probable cause to search his car.

His Stigness > atfsgeoff 01/31/2016 at 15:52

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I never said it was a crime, but it is probable cause to stop and search his car for possible drugs or weapons. You may not like it, but in the US that’s enough evidence (the call about the boys with a brown paper bag acting “suspicious”) for a traffic stop and search, especially since his friends were acting super suspicious fidgeting in the back.

Sorry but the search was legit, but not the officers attitude. The kid did the right thing to let them search his car and avoid any issues with the officers. You would have done the exact same thing at his age and in his situation, and don't try to deny it. Even if the officer hadn't been an intimidating dick, he's still an officer with a gun and handcuffs, which is enough to scare any teenager with an illegal exhaust.

Xyl0c41n3 > His Stigness 01/31/2016 at 16:15

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Woah. Someone is getting testy.

I didn’t get pulled over as a teen, but I have been a ton of times as an adult.

When I drove my POS beater cavalier, I got pulled over a LOT more than I do now. Judgments were being made about who I was simply because of my car. You could make a bet that I allowed my rights to be trampled, but you’d lose that bet.

Courtesy goes a long way towards keeping your rights intact, even when you’re intimidated by a man with a gun on his hip.

And though that man (or woman) has a gun on his hip, and a lot of leeway to do as he/she pleases in regards to the slippery slope that is establishing probable cause, that doesn’t make official oppression ok. The line does get crossed sometimes, leeway notwithstanding. And it gets crossed a helluva lot more often when the motorist is black or Latino.

And by the way, this isn’t about “sticking it to the man.” That you think it is says more about how you view the relationship between law enforcement and the citizenry it’s charged with protecting than anything else. You’ve made a bunch of erroneous assumptions about what you think my feelings are about that relationship.

I work with law enforcement regularly (as in, every single week), have relatives who are federal officers, and am of the firm belief that, though law enforcement is vital and should respected, LEOs should also be equally capable of listening to criticism without automatically jumping to the conclusion that that criticism is an indictment of their profession or their policies.

atfsgeoff > His Stigness 01/31/2016 at 16:38

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Reasonable articulable suspicion, perhaps. NOT probable cause. Enough reason to detain, not enough reason to search the vehicle.

Burn-Spaz1966-Burn > Xyl0c41n3 02/01/2016 at 04:35

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Well a complaint of Teenagers being rowdy. Somebody moving around in the car doing God knows what. He had to keep an eye everybody so he could go home at the end of his shift.

He saw something that might contain alcohol. Cops really don’t like responding to accidents.

wiffleballtony > His Stigness 02/01/2016 at 10:33

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I’m very corporate.

His Stigness > wiffleballtony 02/01/2016 at 10:37

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Oh damn it! You know I meant co-operate.

wiffleballtony > His Stigness 02/01/2016 at 11:08

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I did know what you meant but I couldn’t help myself. I am also a corporate stooge anyway.